Marvin Müller
Hello and welcome to “Reingehört”, your business podcast from the Mittlerer Niederrhein Chamber of Industry and Commerce. My name is Marvin Müller and today I am a guest of Axel Hebmüller, founder and managing director of Hebmüller SRS Technik GmbH, aerospace technology made in Kaarst. That’s what the name Hebmüller stands for. After completing his apprenticeship at Sparkasse Neuss and studying economics, Axel Hebmüller went to the USA for a few years from 91 to the end of 95. After his return, he founded Hebmüller SRS Technik GmbH in 1995.
Today, the company produces and sells valves for the aerospace industry worldwide under Hebmüller SRS, and as Hebmüller Handel for the pharmaceutical and biotech industries. The American market is particularly important for Hebmüller. The company operates its own branch there. In September, the Foreign Trade Association of North Rhine-Westphalia elected Axel Hebmüller, who is an USA expert, as its chairman.
Hello Mr. Hebmüller!
Axel Hebmüller
Mr. Müller, good afternoon!
Marvin Müller
Before we start with the actual podcast episode and the interview, I would like to play a little game with you. It looks like this: I will provide you with two answer options in advance, and you have to choose one of them relatively quickly.
Axel Hebmüller
Yes, with pleasure.
Marvin MüllerOkay, the first one is: phone or write?
Axel Hebmüller
Phone
Marvin Müller
Airbus or Boeing?
Axel Hebmüller
Airbus
Marvin Müller
Window seat or aisle seat on the plane?
Axel Hebmüller
Aisle
Marvin Müller
New York or Los Angeles?
Axel Hebmüller
New York
Marvin Müller
Baseball or Football?
Axel Hebmüller
Football
Marvin Müller
…or soccer?
Axel Hebmüller
Soccer even better.
Marvin Müller
Beach or mountains?
Axel Hebmüller
Mountains
Marvin Müller
Museum or stadium?
Axel Hebmüller
Stadium
Marvin Müller
Dressage or show jumping?
Axel Hebmüller
Show jumping
Marvin Müller
Cinema or Netflix?
Axel Hebmüller
Cinema
Marvin Müller
Pool or sea?
Axel Hebmüller
Pool
Marvin Müller
Racing bike or Dutch bike?
Axel Hebmüller
Racing bike
Marvin Müller
Flip-flops or lace-up shoes?
Axel Hebmüller
Flip-flops
Marvin Müller
Lift or stairs?
Axel Hebmüller
Stairs
Marvin Müller
Okay. The last question: beer or wine?
Axel Hebmüller
Wine
Marvin Müller
Okay, for the USA connoisseur this is almost as much a question of faith as football versus soccer.
Axel Hebmüller
That’s quite true, but they are both very interesting sports. But as a longtime supporter of the Fortuna in Düsseldorf, soccer is of course very close to me.
Marvin Müller
Of course! On your website I found the slogan “Highest quality instead of lowest prices”. And I think that’s quite a statement nowadays, don’t you?
Axel Hebmüller
That is definitely a statement. And the quality standard is of course very, very high, especially here in Germany. But for us, it’s not only the product quality that is decisive, but also, and especially, the customer care. And that’s where we come in with quality.
Marvin Müller
Your most important product is valves for aviation. Can you describe how and where these valves are used and what is special about these products?
Axel Hebmüller
Yes, that is actually relatively simple. The valves are mainly used in the galleys and there in the water supply and in the water disposal. The water supply, of course, is drinking water, so very special standards are required. And in waste disposal, the main thing is to overcome the pressure difference between the cabin pressure and the tank pressure, which is where the water goes in the first place.
Marvin Müller
Now I have a question: This is a very special product, a product for a very special purpose. How do you come up with something like that? Where does this idea come from?
Axel Hebmüller
Yes, I have to go back a long way. When I founded the company in 1995, we represented US companies in Germany. These were mostly medium-sized companies and one of them also built valves in the aerospace sector. Quite similar to how we build them today. But the company had earmarked another company for the distribution of aviation valves. And that has to do with certain demands that aviation has on suppliers. However, due to delivery times, we were often asked if we could do something to get the valves there faster. And at some point it got to the point where I said we could actually do that ourselves. And then we started to design and qualify the valves ourselves. And that’s how we got into aviation in 2007.
Marvin Müller
You did your training at the Sparkasse and then studied economics. The product development you just presented is actually an engineering question. How did you solve it? Did you work together with engineers, or did you develop your own expertise? What did the process look like?
Axel Hebmüller
Yes, certainly my educational background is mainly commercial. That is correct. But when I went to the USA, I worked there for five years for a valve manufacturer and naturally gained a lot of expertise from that. When we developed the valves, I naturally used engineers I had met during my time in the USA as well as German engineers to help us develop the valves.
Marvin Müller
How did you come back from the USA to the Lower-Rhine area?
Axel Hebmüller
Well, first by plane. But apart from that, I always wanted to make the most of my time in the USA. I always planned to stay in the USA for a maximum of five years, at least three. I married my wife here in Germany in 1994, so the question arose: either the USA or Germany, and I always wanted to come back to Germany, and the opportunity arose for me to establish myself here professionally by becoming self-employed.
And so the decision to come back was relatively easy. And I am very, very attached to my homeland. That is also the case here in the company. The employees are all from the Rhein-Kreis Neuss area. So it was really easy for me to come back.
Marvin Müller
But you are still connected to the USA?
Axel Hebmüller
Of course, I am still connected to the USA. Three years ago, we founded a branch in the USA in north-east Tennessee. We have one person there at the moment, and one of our employees is going back to the USA next year to do her Master’s degree at the university there and will of course work for us in the office during that time.
From a background point of view: I was an exchange student in the USA as early as 1984, and I still maintain these friendships just as I did with my colleagues from the company where I worked in Cincinnati between 1991 and 95, so there is still a very, very strong bond.
Marvin Müller
We are just at the end of 2021. Three years ago, you just said, you founded a branch in the USA, so three years back. Politically, that wasn’t exactly the easiest time the US has experienced. What was that like for you? How did you experience the years under the then president?
Axel Hebmüller
That was certainly one reason why we founded the company in the USA at that time. We wanted to enter the market directly, we wanted to be on the spot. And it was certainly very, very difficult to assess politically what would really happen. The historical development shows quite clearly that the USA no longer has the dominance, the world dominance over the economy, and that it no longer claims leadership in this form, and that we therefore have a situation in which we as Germans, if we want to be successful, naturally must be much closer to the market.
And the American president at the time did a lot of that. And funnily enough, I was in the US just last week, and it is very, very clear that the business community would like to see President Trump back in the US. So at the moment I assume, and I can see this, that the decision was actually quite, quite right.
Marvin Müller
With the current presidency of Joe Biden, many foreign trade companies from Germany hope that trade relations will improve. Is this hope deceptive? What do you think, how would you assess that?
Axel Hebmüller
It’s definitely… let’s put it this way: it’s not deceptive. No, the obvious relations between the US and Europe are getting better every day. There are various initiatives, also in Germany as well as in the US, where these things are being discussed, how we can get closer again economically. But at the end of the day, we have to be very, very clear: things will never go back to the way they were before.
We will clearly have to make agreements and also agreements that will probably hurt us a little as an exporting nation. Especially the USA, as one of the biggest buyers of German products. And that, of course, is where talks are needed. The talks will be much easier with a President Biden. Whether the results will be better, I cannot judge at the moment, because relatively little is happening in this context from the Biden administration and we as Germans are in a vacuum position at the moment, so we will have to wait a little to see what comes out of it. And we only have a few more years of Biden and who knows whether Trump will come back.
Marvin Müller
The position is certainly not the easiest one to make business decisions now. What would you advise entrepreneurs who want to become active in the USA now? Wait or enter the market?
Axel Hebmüller
No. Go into the market. You have to be on the spot, because on the spot with the American staff you get a better impression and can then also adjust much, much better to the things that will happen there. Politics is a business. Decisions are made, but then it takes a relatively long time before they are implemented. On the other hand, many decisions are made that ruin everything again, i. e. the previous decisions. And I believe that we, especially small and medium-sized enterprises, cannot rely on waiting to see what the politicians do, but must take action ourselves as entrepreneurs, and that is why I can only advise everyone: there are very good opportunities. There are very good funding programs that also like to see German or European investments in the USA. So I can only advise everyone to go directly to the market and become active there.
Marvin Müller
What do German entrepreneurs have to be prepared for when negotiating with American business partners?
Axel Hebmüller
Yes, that is always a difficult question and certainly depends very much on the industry. Basically, the economic principle is paramount in the USA. That means, it is about the decision on the order, on the contract that is being negotiated. It’s not about some social environment or something, as we certainly know from Germany, but it’s about the contract, about what’s on paper, about the prices, about the delivery times, about the profitability of the whole thing. And you should be prepared for that.
Marvin Müller
You very often hear that in Germany it is very important to plan completely, to have a very comprehensive business plan, for example, to prepare for all eventualities, to write down very accurately all the details that need to be considered. In the USA, there is often more of a “just do it” mentality. Is it difficult for you to have this switch, that is, to switch between the two countries when you enter business relations? Or is that easy for you and doesn’t matter?
Axel Hebmüller
For me personally, it is not that difficult to understand these things. But that’s because of my history, simply because of the long relationship I have with the USA. And as an entrepreneur, as the owner of two small companies, I am certainly used to making decisions. And from that point of view, it’s a mentality that certainly suits us as small entrepreneurs and medium-sized businesses.
Marvin Müller
Now, of course, globally we have other conflicts to solve besides climate change, which is discussed again and again. One of them is the one between the USA and China. Germany is still a bit torn. On the one hand, Germany naturally feels bound to the USA and the community of values. On the other hand, it is also economically very, very dependent on China. How do things develop there? How do you assess that? Does Germany have to choose sides?
Axel Hebmüller
First and foremost, we as Germans should be very self-confident. We are one of the leading economic nations of the world and we should make our own decisions and not necessarily make them more dependent on alliances that we have, as far as the economic side is concerned. The US has shown under Trump that it has also gone down precisely this path. That was to be expected. The long period after the war, when we had very, very close economic and socio-political ties with the US, is certainly coming to an end, at least as far as the economy is concerned. In my opinion, we must certainly be careful not to accept too many socio-political changes as a result of being too close to the Chinese economy, which could lead us politically in a direction that is certainly not good for us in the next 50 years. We should definitely preserve our socio-politically free system.
I think that is completely out of the question. Of course, we have to be careful, but we should be very self-confident and choose our own economic partners.
Marvin Müller
What role did China play, let’s say as a competitor, for you as an entrepreneur?
Axel Hebmüller
In our sector the impact is still very, very low. This is simply due to the fact that the two big aircraft manufacturers, Airbus and Boeing, are not Chinese. The Chinese aviation program, civil aviation, has been in the works for a long time. The first jets are coming out, but the accessories, that is, basically the galley or the on-board toilet, are currently still completely dominated by American and European manufacturers. There are first signs that some of the manufacturers are also producing in China, but at the moment we do not see any acute need for action, but we are keeping our eyes open. We have several discussions every year, also with people locally. These can be specialists from the Chamber of Commerce, but also through business contacts, just to get a feel for what is happening in the Chinese market.
Marvin Müller
Would you like German politics to set the course more so that German SMEs can continue to hold their own internationally in the future?
Axel Hebmüller
I believe that it is very important, and this is certainly not only a task of the government, but of everyone themselves, of entrepreneurs themselves, but also of the chambers of commerce, that a better network is spun through contacts that can be used to get a feeling for a market. It is not only China, but there is also Africa, certainly interesting markets. There are certainly markets in the Asia-Pacific region that could be interesting, if there were a better, direct approach that one could use, that would certainly make a lot of sense for us as small and medium-sized enterprises.
Marvin Müller
At the end of this discussion, I would now like to address a topic that I unfortunately still have to address. And that is the Corona pandemic. Everyone has noticed that the Corona pandemic, among other things, of course also plunged aviation into a very serious crisis. How did you experience this time?
Axel Hebmüller
Yes, the crisis was certainly present, order slumps and cancellations happen regularly for us for a while in the spring of 2020. However, we have information and from many discussions we also know that especially in the area of smaller aircraft, whether it is the Airbus A320 series or the Boeing 737 series, that these aircraft should almost return to pre-Corona status in the middle of next year in terms of production. The order situation at Airbus and Boeing is so far better again. Before the pandemic, you might have to wait 5-6 years for an aircraft if you ordered it. That has certainly improved a bit now.
Therefore, the order situation has improved in this respect, but one can also clearly see that the large aircraft, and here I am talking about the long-haul aircraft, are certainly becoming considerably fewer. It also seems to be going in the direction that this will remain the case in the long run. At the moment, this has to do with the intercontinental flights, some of which are difficult to operate, see USA, which will only be possible again from 8 November. But the development is also going in the direction that it will soon be possible to fly non-stop from Düsseldorf to Sydney with a relatively small aircraft due to the lighter construction, due to the better efficiency of the turbines, and that too economically. So there is certainly movement in the market and we are very curious to see what Airbus and Boeing will develop next in this direction.
Marvin Müller
You just mentioned the efficiency of the turbines. That would also be my next topic, namely climate protection. In the medium term, we expect profound changes in almost all sectors of the economy and a shift towards more sustainable production. What do you expect for your industry?
Axel Hebmüller
Yes, this will certainly affect our industry, or rather it is already affecting it. A lot of work is being done to increase the efficiency of turbines in particular. There are certainly many things that have to do with the aircraft. I just mentioned the lightweight construction. But it certainly also depends on the use of alternative fuels, which is also the focus of many developments. There is also a lot of research going on in this area. What it means for us as a company is that we have absolute weight limits for all our valves, and each valve is checked by our customers to see whether the weights are being adhered to, so that we will certainly have to face even more challenges in this respect when it comes to the use of plastics, steel or various plastics that we use. We will certainly have to wait and see to what extent alternatives can be found. Here, too, we are active with our company in one or the other committee, researching where something can be replaced.
Marvin Müller
Okay, that brings us to the end of our discussion. However, I have one last question that I would like to ask you as someone who knows the USA. Can you tell us your secret travel tip? Which destination in the USA do you particularly recommend and why?
Axel Hebmüller
I am still a big fan of New York. It is still a unique city. I can only recommend it to everyone: leave your hotel early in the morning, walk through the streets and see how life develops there in one morning and how it flows through the day. But if I were to travel to the USA today, the USA is very diverse, but where we are located, in East Tennessee, it is certainly an area that is not so familiar and that has a lot to offer historically for the USA. As an acquaintance of mine said, it’s very comparable to the Black Forest in Germany, i. e. low mountains, lots of forest, great landscape, great buildings, great people. That’s where you really get to know the real America the best.
Marvin Müller
And instead of beer or wine, it would be whiskey…
Axel Hebmüller
Then it would really be the whiskey. The Whiskey Trail is also highly recommended.
Marvin Müller
All right. Great, Mr. Hebmüller, thank you very much for this interview!
Axel Hebmüller
You’re welcome!
